Edgbaston Returns - Christians for Moses Ministries
This (below) is part of an ongoing “document”. I’m not sure how to best characterize it. Perhaps bizarre, in the sense of grotesque with absurd to help round out what I’m getting at. At another level, however, it is deadly serious. Christian Zionists ought to be taken seriously. Why? In a sentence: Christian Zionist’s defile the meaning of Christ. So what? So does most of Western culture right? Yes. But most of Western culture does not defile the meaning of Christ in Christ’s name. Until I can imagine Jesus Christ acting and advocating as these Christian Zionists have acted here, their meaning for me will be decidedly anti-Christ. What they propose under the banner of a universal humanist is inhuman: They appear to advocate for nothing less than the continuance of heinous atrocities in Palestine under the ideological phatasm of a “Christian”-based defense of the Jewish right to total hegemony over all of Palestine. Take that seriously. Take Christian Zionist’s seriously. Their ideological commitment is not to love but destruction, not to humanism but racism, not to justice but injustice, not to truth but to lies.
That’s my view on the matter. You?
At any rate, Charles Edgbaston, chairman of the Christians for Moses Ministries apparently has a news release. In it the Christians for Moses Ministries wish to take their fair share of credit for orchestrating Norman G. Finkelstein’s failed tenure bid. They appear to take credit for disseminating false propaganda against Finkelstein. Of course, they regard the false propaganda as true. Charles Edgbaston emailed it to me and I’ve included it below exactly as received. I am even mentioned in this news release. Me. As is this blog.
Here are the relevant links at this blog. Give them - and especially all the comments - a read.
Getting Called a Vicious Anti-Semite
Three Anti-Semites? Hating Norman Finkelstein - Comments
What is all this? How does it bear on Israel in Palestine? It seems so far removed from those realities and yet all these battles over the truth of matters - and no one should doubt that the Christian Zionist’s believe they’ve got the truth under a barrel - all these battles are basic to the terrain of discerning the facts from fiction in Palestine.
From: “charles edgbaston”
To:
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:28 PM
Subject: Tenure for Norman Finkelstein
>>
>>
>> NEWS RELEASE
>>
> DENIAL OF TENURE FOR NORMAN FINKELSTEIN LAUDED
>
>>
>> June 14, 2007
>>
>>
>> PENTICTON, Canada — Christians for Moses Ministries chairman
>>Dr. Charles J. Edgbaston today extolled the role played by his
>>organization in securing the denial of tenure for the arch anti-Zionist
>>Norman Finkelstein of DePaul University in Chicago.
>
> In August 2006, a judicial sentence was issued against
>Finkelstein for being a “Slanderer of Zion” and an “Enemy of the
>>People.”
>>
>> The sentence was rendered by the ecclesiastical court of CFM
>>Ministries Inc., a 55,000-strong world-wide Christian Zionist movement
>>based in Canada.
>>
>> Mr. Finkelstein was offered a waiver from the sentence if he
>>issued a public apology for his offensive obscenities against the holy
>>Jewish people and their Holy Land.
>>
>> He refused.
>>
>> As a consequence, its disciples were empowered to enforce the
>>court-ordered penalties of: a) removing him from his place of employment;
>>b) removing him from his place of residence and c) removing him from the
>>global community of professional educators.
>>
>> DePaul University management and the University of California
>>Press were informed of these developments.
>>
>> In addition, the celebrated Middle East and Arab Studies
>>expert Prof. Harold Williams was contracted by CFM Ministries to analyze
>>the disturbing contents of Finkelstein’s book “Beyond Chutzpah.” Dr.
>>Williams documented that this book was without academic and intellectual
>>merit. It consisted only of “an unprovoked pit-bull” attack against the
>>eminent legal scholar Prof. Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University and the
>>trail-blazing journalist Joan Peters. She aroused Finkelstein’s venom for
>>exposing in 1984 the history of myth-making by the Arabs of Palestine and
>>the Arab League on the history of the Holy Land and the Palestine Arab war
>>against the Hebrew Holocaust survivors in Israel in 1947-8.
>
> Dr. Williams also enumerated over 300 errors of fact contained
>in the Finkelstein book.
>
> One of the major errors committed was Finkelstein’s bald
>assertion that no other country in the world today except Israel occupied
>the territory of another country. 54 countries were named as occupying
>powers by Prof. Williams, including India (Kashmir) and China (Tibet).
>
> Finkelstein also invented the myth that the Arabs of Palestine
>were its indigenous inhabitants. Prof. Williams showed this to be
>egregiously false as the Jews are the aboriginal inhabitants and have
>always inhabited Palestine whereas the Arabs of Palestine were nouveaux
>arrives, invading the land from their homeland in Arabia in 638 A.D. and
>ethnically cleansing the native Jews, stealing their holy places, and
>committing a massive land and water resource grab of Jewish property. They
>also brutalized the native Christians, burning down the Church of the Holy
>Sepulcher in Jerusalem. Finkelstein then proceeded to ventilate his rage
>at Williams, accusing him of “spreading Zionist fairy-tales.”
>>
>> This documentation was immediately forwarded to the University
>>of California Press with a view to ordering a massive recall of all copies
>>of the defective Finkelstein book. Further, DePaul University management
>>was apprised of this shocking material last January with a view to having
>>Mr. Finkelstein removed from its halls of academe as serious scholars no
>>longer debate Finkelstein’s books — they dismiss them.
>>
>> This information is on the public record and can be accessed on
>>Mr. Finkelstein’s website and in abbreviated format on the “Will to Truth”
>>blog maintained by Brad Stroud.
>>
>> For the record, CFM Ministries has no connection to Prof.
>>Dershowitz or the other brave individuals who have risked their
>>reputations to expose the violent and irrational personality of Mr.
>>Finkelstein. However, it has made available to them the original forensic
>>research documentation unearthed by Prof. Williams against Mr.
>>Finkelstein. This includes tens of examples of plagiarized material from
>>human rights groups. The international scholarly community has rightly
>>condemned “Beyond Chutzpah” and declared Finkelstein’s other books as a
>>collection of monumental falsehoods.
>>
>> - 30 -
>>
>>
>>
>> Contact:
* Very Rev. Dr. Charles J. Edgbaston, D.D., Ph.D
>> Chairman, Christians for Moses Ministries
>>Inc. and
>> Rector, Zion College of Canada
>>
>>Penticton, B.C.
>
> * Author:
Three Centuries of Arab Pogroms Against Jews in
Palestine
>
> The Arab Usurpation of the Holy Land
>
> Christians and Jews Under Arab Apartheid Policies
>in Palestine
>
> The Untold Story of the Palestinian Arab Zionists
>
> Mufti: The Nazi Collaboration of the Arabs of
>Palestine (forthcoming)
>
18 comments
This is wonderful news. All the reports on Finkelstein made it seem that a famed Harvard Law Professor was responsible for his ouster. Now we have proof there were others involved, notably the evangelical community.
I have read all the comments and articles you’ve posted on this controversy and must say DePaul University made a wise decision. After all, if our professors can’t be trusted to teach and publish the truth, what hope is there for the next generation?
It might be worthwhile to post a series of articles on the power of the Christian Zionist lobby in America. Do they control American foreign policy? Do they control the media? Why do the Palestinians persecute them in Gaza and the West Bank? etc, etc.
Apparent proof. It might be taking credit where it is not due also. But if true, it certainly highlights the politics of truth. In which case, one would best forget about authority or even Authority and trust one’s own ability to reason through matters and decide for oneself when a writer/speaker is on the mark. After all, the “authorities” apparently are not in it for the truth. At least not when it comes to Special conflicts with Special meanings for Special people. At any rate, if it is true the some Christian Zionist organization played dirty behind the scenes, then it is true - let’s not pretend otherwise.
I’m not clear as to why you’ve drawn the conclusion that “our professors can’t be trusted to teach and publish the truth”. It seems that the trust issue lies not with the professors but with the authoritarians who - without substantive base - act to undermine such taught and published truths.
Nonetheless, despite such, I’ve not given up hope - it will take more than Blasphemers to do that!
I was thinking less along the lines of power and more along the lines of ideology. Whether or not it has some power is certainly relevant but the ideology … what do they seriously think? How does it inform their actions? Finally, do any of them ever actually disseminate their ground breaking critical exposés in a public venue for all to read or do they keep them cloistered up in rooms where only the converted are admitted? At this juncture, it would appear to be the latter.
If you have any substantive works to offer up for perusal, I’d love to read them.
Colleen may wish to reply separately but I have these suggestions for your interest in following up on the works of the Christian Zionists.
Check out the following organizations who have very persuasive websites that make the case for Israel convincingly:
Christian Zionism.org
Christians for Fair Witness on the Middle East
International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem, Israel
National Christian Leadership Conference for Israel
Thank you Elias. I’ve been doing a bit of online research myself and I came across an interesting letter written by David Parsons of the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem to Ilan Pappe regarding a certain “Rev. Charles J. Edgbaston, Chairman of Christians for Moses Inc. and Rector, Zion College of Canada Penticton, British Columbia, Canada,” and his “representations” against Pappe.
I’ll follow it all up as time permits. I look forward to writing it and receiving critical feedback.
Another active Christian Zionist group with a web site is, I believe, Christians United for Israel (Canada) based in the GTA.
The comedic value of this has really brightened my day. This is some funny shit. thanks for the laugh.
the irony of people that believe the bible is a historically accurate document attempting to descredit a prof. of Finkelstein’s caliber is a real knee-slapper.
There are 75 million Americans and Canadians of the Christian faith who back Israel 1000 per cent against the Sharia Apartheid Arabs of the Holy Land led by Hamas. Hamas has imposed the Apartheid Dhimmah status on the 2000 Palestinian Christians in Gaza and are doing so stealthily on the West Bank where they are ethnically cleansing tens of thousands of the Bethlehem and Nablus Palestinian Christians. Inside Israel itself, these Islamo-Fascists have burnt down the main Christian church in Nazareth.
As a result, the Christian Zionist movement has moved into high gear to ensure Hamas is boycotted by the Western world until it collapses.
New CZ lobby groups are:
Christians for Israel International
Christian Action for Israel
International Fellowship of Christians and Jews
Christians for Moses
Catholic Friends of Israel
Could you explain what you mean by “Sharia Apartheid Arabs of the Holy Land”?
Could you provide some supporting evidence for your claims about Hamas?
Could you explain what you mean by Islamo-Fascist?
Could you provide supporting evidence about the circumstances of the church burning you mention?
If your claim is true that 75 million North American Christians support Israel, all the worse for Christianity. I can see nothing Christ-like in supporting violence, oppression, dispossession, torture, extra-judicial executions, house demolitions, land theft, resource theft, and withholding taxes (which amounts to withholding food).
These 75 million are Christ-ians your say? Blasphemy! How does Christ’s teachings support Israel’s actions in Palestine? Could you explain by connecting his teachings in the gospels with what it is you think the “75 million” support?
Dear Brad,
Surprised to read you don’t have the foggiest about what’s happening to our Arab Christian brothers and sisters in the Holy Land.
They are under attack by Hamas death squads occupying Gaza, and by the Fatah gangsters occupying the West Bank. Thousands are fleeing to Israel, then to Canada, USA
and Latin America. It’s a replication of the ethnic cleansing that took place in all the other 53 Muslim countries.
In Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, Christian East Timor was subjected to genocidal massacres until the Australians put a stop to that. Other Indonesian Christians, especially in Aceh, are now being ethnically cleansed. Same is happening in Pakistan -churches are being fire-bombed by imam-led mobs. Nigerian civil war of Muslims against Christians is another current blood bath.
In Arab lands, Iraq has transferred its Assyrian and Catholic Christians for butchery in death camps. The Assyrians, the oldest Christians in the world, now number less than 3 million and are starting to fight back with support of USA Congress.
Really big Arab country - Egypt- has put 5 million Christian Copts into bantustan ghettos and their Pope, Msgr. Shenouda, is regularly tortured.
Saudi Arabia doe not allow churches to be built in that country. Tourists with crucifixes have them ripped from their necks by customs, and their Bibles are burnt. All Christians are labelled as the descendants of apes and pigs according to the Koran and Jesus Christ is called a Muslim prophet who is not God but a mere mortal. Jesus is said to have faked his crucifixion and Mary is forbidden to be worshipped.
In Lebanon, the 1976-90 civil war resulted in 1 million Maronite and Greek Orthodox Christians fleeing the country for Canada, USA, Venezuela, France and Australia. Israel also accepted 40,000 Christian Lebanese refugees thru the “Good Fence” in 1987. The remaining Christians in West Beirut, Sidon, and the south live in constant fear as their leaders are picked off one-by-one by Syria and Hizbullah. Never forget what happened to Rafic Hariri, the Christian Prime Minister. He was blown to smithereens by the Syrian Alawite war criminals. Never forget what happened to the 8500 Christians at Damour in 1976. They were strangled and shot in cold blood by the Lebanese Arabs and Palestinian Arab Sunnis. Their bodies were then eviscerated, their breasts and testicles stuffed in their throats. Never forget! Never forgive! Blood for blood!
In the Holy Land, the YMCA was torched in Qalqilya by the Fatah because they didn’t like Pope Benedict’s September 2006 speech. They then moved into Gaza and firebombed three Greek Orthodox and 1 Latin Catholic church all of which were hundreds of years old. Mahmoud Abbas said it was a great disgrace to have this happen to churches that were built before the Palestinian Muslim Arabs came to Palestine.
Three weeks ago Father Musallem wept when he saw Hamas ransack a Catholic school and convent, and rape the nuns cowering in fright there.
Jesus Christ proclaimed in the Gospels: “Think not that I have come to bring peace to the world. Rather I have brought the sword.” Were He alive today, He would surely pull out His
whip that he used against the money-changers and flay the wretched skins of these Muslim Arab butchers in the Middle East. We call them rightly so Islamo-fascists - further adumbration in light of the evidence above would be superfluous.
Under the Muslim religious law code called the Sharia, the Arabs apply an apartheid regime to the life of non-Muslims in their midst. Everyone who is not a Jew or Christian or Sabean is termed an “infidel of the first degree.” This means their lives are forfeit unless they accept to be slaves. Thus the thousands of African blacks, Hindu and Chinese guest workers in Saudi Arabia have had their passports confiscated, and work as sex slaves, construction slaves, concubines, and eunuchs to the Saudi royals and their extended families numbering over 200,000. Ditto in the Gulf Emirates. Those who are Jews and Christians, while being the descendants of monkeys and swine, are nonetheless termed “People of the Book.” The Sharia orders them to give up their lives or accept the “dhimmah” status. This is also an apartheid regime that prevents them from integrating into society. Their houses of worship cannot be repaired, no new ones can be built, they cannot pray aloud, they must not walk on a sidewalk while a Muslim passes by, their clothing must have different colors to ensure they are recognized as non-Muslims, they must pay the jizya and other discriminatory taxes that Muslims don’t pay and they are confined to bantustan ghettos. This is called “protection of the life of the infidels of the second degree.” If this behavioral code is violated by the humiliated dhimmi people, they are subject to public beheading by the sword. Hamas is enforcing the Sharia very strictly now that Gaza is under their occupation.
In the name of the Palestine Christian underground and in the name of the long-suffering Christians of Arab and Muslim lands all over the world who number in the millions, I appeal to you to expose these monstrous crimes against humanity for action by the UN Human Rights Commissioner and the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.
Sonny,
Thanks for the details. Somehow, Israel’s own atrocious actions are continuously sidestepped so let me make note of that once again. Were you to have stated that Israel is no better than …and provided these examples above that would have been something indeed.
Let me further note that I asked for Christ’s take in the gospels and you singled out what can be misinterpreted as his advocating killing. Of course, he more likely was speaking metaphorically of radically challenging Jewish religious thinking and indeed thinking of a radically different way of living and being unknown to his Jewish brethren or indeed the world but you didn’t take it there. Instead, for you, under my request, Christ wields the sword as a killer. Quite frankly this implicit claim of yours causes me to take your “Christianity” with a grain of salt. Perhaps that line is the one of his that most moves you and your brethren but it isn’t the Christ I understand.
Are there any other quotes by him to back that one up or is that sufficient for you to build up your “Christian” case for bloodshed in Palestine and the middle east?
Still, I appreciate all this detail. However, I think you’d do me and other readers a far greater service in the name of truth, were you to share with us the sources of your information. This is the common refrain I’ve made over and over and I will make it again. What separates potential propaganda and hate-mongering from facts is reputable sources and reports. Since clearly you’ve obtained the above information from some source or sources you’ve read, please list them so I can check out those sources for myself.
This actually isn’t doubting that various ethnic groupings all over the world commit atrocities against other ethnic groupings since I take that to be obvious and prevalent. What I want, however, is to satisfy myself and your words alone are inadequate in this respect. Only the sources of this information will do.
Your understanding of Christ is woeful. You should read the New Testament, which is the Bible or holy book of the Christian believers.
Christ was a man, and talked like a man. He does not speak metaphorically as you state. He got very angry at people who did not listen to him, and beat them up. That’s why he carried a whip and brought a sword.
Newcomers to Christianity like yourself have to realize that Christ preached justice as well as peace. To obtain justice, He advocated the demise of the evil-doers physically.
Many scholars of Christianity assert that Christ’s crucifixion was a metaphor. Do you believe in this metaphor too? Show me the proof there are metaphors in his statements. I mean, sources, citations, references etc. Otherwise, spare me your nonsense.
I hold a Master’s degree in Christian theology and comparative religion. So I know what I am talking about. Now, wrap this around your head. In the Gospels (Luke 19:27) Christ says clearly, without metaphors: “Take my enemies who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and slaughter them before me.” This what we Christians accept wholeheartedly. If you do not, you are not a Christian.
You keep asking for sources, but never provide any of your own. In any case, here are some sources for the Arab and Palestinian genocide of the Palestinian Christians and Christians in other Arab lands. There are thousands more of these sources. Open your eyes and see the brutal reality that is taking place by your Hamas friends.
—–”Gaza Christians Wary After Hamas Takeover.” CNS News, June 19, 2007
—– “Five Churches Attacked in Palestine Territories,” by Ali Daragmeh, Toronto Globe and Mail, September 16, 2006
—– BBC News, “Analysis: Iraq’s Christians under Attack,” Aug. 2, 2004
—– “Egyptian Copts Attacked by Violent Mobs,” Journal Chrétien, June 25, 2007
—– “Copts Become Target of Muslim Militants: Egypt’s Christians Attacked as Obstacle to Goal of Islamic State,” Washington Post, May 18. 1993
Well Sonny, you got me here, I think, but I’ve a thought or two.
Let’s take literally the Luke 19:27 quote. Literally, he wants those enemies who will not have him rule over them to actually be brought to him and slayed. Literally, he is referring to his earthly existence, the here and now of then. Literally,that certainly cannot apply to you and your brethren using those words to justify killing people in the name of Christ. Only, if you interpret it as a metaphor can you assume such violent license. If you accept it wholeheartedly, you must be accepting it metaphorically not literally.
Of course, it is not possible for a man speaking in parables etc., to not also be speaking in metaphors. Any of your brethren, for example, plucked out their eye because it offended them? Seen any camel’s even try to squeeze through the eye of a needle? Metaphors. Figures of speech. A man, even Christ, must employ them to communicate with other humans.
It’s just the way language works.
At any rate, I’d recently believed I had a handle on Christ. Love was the message. Now you insist on showing that, indeed, Christ is not love but intolerance and violence. It still doesn’t jive with much that I’ve discerned about Christ but since a Christian is insisting on the biblical foundations for Christian violence - well, you win! I’m not sure what the victory is in that but you win it. Still, I think you’ve taken the wrong message from him but I see it supports your politics.
Thanks for the supporting documents. I will read them. I think, however, your position on what Christ is all about somewhat undermines your apparent horror at the killing of Christians. Christians, after all, are part and parcel of the intolerant, violent, murderous genocidal acts you condemn.
Such killing is hideous, disgusting, disturbing but from where exactly is the Christian to offer up a moral/ethical evaluation of such acts given its own violent ethos?
Brad,
Christ is intolerant only insofar as evil is concerned. He hates it with a passion. When evildoers turn to goodness and repent, He then loves them endlessly.
Our violent Christian ethos, sadly, is rooted in paganism, in our unwillingness to accept the Judaic teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures.
It was St. Augustine who showed us the way — it is to turn to the holy Jewish people for guidance in offering up a moral/ethical evaluation of war and peace.
The late Pope John Paul sounded the clarion call: “Israel is holy. His covenant with God remains valid for all eternity. We Christians must protect the Jews with all our souls. Remember, they are our elder brother.”
Amen.
Jews are holy? Then why does Paul write:
1 Thessalonians 2:13-16 (New International Version)
13And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe. 14For you, brothers, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, 15who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men 16in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]
how can a christian call a jew who hates Jesus holy? potentially holy if he repents, but not currently holy. John Paul was partial to his Rothschild bankers, as are all Catholic leaders to this day.
Christ hated evil, but he told his disciples that he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. sure he used the roman armies to destroy jerusalem, but they were wicked pagans and they will spend eternity in hell. they simply were agents to do God’s dirty work. and it will be done, but no Christian should want to do it.
but if you insist on being God’s terminator, He will use you and then wont even bother to thank you as He consigns you to eteranl hellfire and damnation for using violence to promote His kingdom.
the above messages were addressed to “Sonny”. and where pray tell did Augustine tell us to “turn to the holy Jewish people for guidance in offering up a moral/ethical evaluation of war and peace.” Maybe you read a book by a Jewish pundit named Gus Stein?
Please be aware that Michael Korn is an apostate Jew who has formed an outlaw Christian sect called ICE in Israel. Nothing that he says or writes should be taken seriously.